tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6814666.post108663374640383389..comments2023-10-02T10:20:41.334-06:00Comments on Let Us Reason: Am I a meme?Christopher Bradford (Grasshopper)http://www.blogger.com/profile/15570059391740402667noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6814666.post-42380141412975940892011-08-17T10:45:01.910-06:002011-08-17T10:45:01.910-06:00It amazes me how long you've been participatin...It amazes me how long you've been participating in the blogosphere/mormon blogosphere. I feel like you're years ahead on the learning/thinking curve. Great post.mistahdoomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10565026922565152435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6814666.post-1086923354448443062004-06-10T21:09:00.000-06:002004-06-10T21:09:00.000-06:00I understand very little of memitics, so perhaps t...I understand very little of memitics, so perhaps this is irrelevent. In my basic understanding, memes are analogous to genes (with comparisons about survival of the fittest and so on), and successful memes replicate themselves. Therein lies the problem for me in trying to conceive of identity as a meme. Identity can't, as far as I can tell, be replicated. My tentative understanding of BDemostheneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06042355495104781812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6814666.post-1086897928868713212004-06-10T14:05:00.000-06:002004-06-10T14:05:00.000-06:00Grasshopper:
rather than "indistinguishable" both...Grasshopper:<br /><br />rather than "indistinguishable" bothering us...why shouldn't it comfort us? We are all the Children of God. Shouldn't we be fairly, almost indistinguishably, similar in appearance/composition? like brothers & sisters? also, they may only be indistinguishable 'currently' given our level of tech (assuming meme's are literal) :) <br />-lyleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6814666.post-1086716422892869892004-06-08T11:40:00.000-06:002004-06-08T11:40:00.000-06:00Grasshopper,
Would you be dismayed if you were to...Grasshopper,<br /><br />Would you be dismayed if you were to learn that you are a meme, but that you are not unique, i.e., that your meme pattern is replicated elsewhere? <br /><br />Would you consider meme pattern A that appears to an objective observer to be identical to meme pattern B is, in fact the same pattern? Does the subjective perceptions of the "pattern" count for anything in this greenfroghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13646826003797658563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6814666.post-1086704033614048622004-06-08T08:13:00.000-06:002004-06-08T08:13:00.000-06:00Lyle,
Thanks for making the explicit connection b...Lyle,<br /><br />Thanks for making the explicit connection between our concept of spiritual creation and my thoughts above. I think this is another fascinating connection to Mormonism, and may help to bridge the apparent gap between "planning as spiritual creation" and "all spirit is matter" (or at least represented in some kind of material substrate?).<br /><br />This would suggest that we are Christopher Bradford (Grasshopper)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15570059391740402667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6814666.post-10867037667210292004-06-08T08:09:00.000-06:002004-06-08T08:09:00.000-06:00Thanks for the links, Semiotician.
JL, I'm defini...Thanks for the links, Semiotician.<br /><br />JL, I'm definitely going beyond Dennett (at least what I've read of him) in suggesting that my identity may be a meme. But it seems wrong to say that my identity cannot be shared by a group. To some extent, it must be, because the group recognizes me as me. Their representation of the meme is certainly different from my representation of it, but, as Christopher Bradford (Grasshopper)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15570059391740402667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6814666.post-1086698672821756272004-06-08T06:44:00.000-06:002004-06-08T06:44:00.000-06:00sounds like a good theory. personally, i almost f...sounds like a good theory. personally, i almost feel like a life dies each time that i can't turn an idea/meme into a physical reality. almost like they want to be 'clothed' in more concrete matter! (i.e. it doesn't have to be dualistic thanks to JS definition of 'spirit' as more refined matter.) Remember, God created the world 'spiritually' first; why wouldn't it follow that we do the same Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6814666.post-1086671382310267712004-06-07T23:09:00.000-06:002004-06-07T23:09:00.000-06:00I haven't read Dennet's book but I understood 'mem...I haven't read Dennet's book but I understood 'memes' to apply to cultural and social ideas. That excludes one's personal identity from the meme classification since our identites cannot be shared by a group. Don't memes live by travelling from person to person or group to group? I know I am oversimplifying and I know Dennett has much more complicated ideas on the matter (since he always does).<JLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10769264710411660303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6814666.post-1086667061440522192004-06-07T21:57:00.000-06:002004-06-07T21:57:00.000-06:00An other good resource is the following introducti...An other good resource is the following introduction to semiotics.<br /><br />http://www.aber.ac.uk/media/Documents/S4B/sem08b.html<br /><br />I also had a discussion on this topic in an intentionally dense and impenetrable fashion over at the Metaphysics Elders. Why I made things more complicated than they needed to be I'm still trying to figure out.Clark Goblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03876620613578404474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6814666.post-1086666866885070552004-06-07T21:54:00.000-06:002004-06-07T21:54:00.000-06:00The following is probably the best place to start....The following is probably the best place to start. It's one of Peirce's main essays and is quite readable.<br /><br />http://members.door.net/arisbe/menu/library/bycsp/conseq/cn-main.htmClark Goblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03876620613578404474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6814666.post-1086647136118760792004-06-07T16:25:00.000-06:002004-06-07T16:25:00.000-06:00While I find the concept of "memes" somewhat probl...While I find the concept of "memes" somewhat problematic, I think you'll find that this is what Peirce believed. He's famous for saying that man is a sign. I've touched on this a few times on my blog. The Metaphysical Club is good for mentioning him, but his actual writings are well worth reading. The Essential Peirce is the best source. However short of that go to my blog and I have Clark Goblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03876620613578404474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6814666.post-1086646293226160232004-06-07T16:11:00.000-06:002004-06-07T16:11:00.000-06:00Semiotician, I have a slight familiarity with Peir...Semiotician, I have a slight familiarity with Peirce (having been introduced to him by John Robertson and Alan Manning in the linguistics program at BYU), but hadn't made the connection between his "man is a sign" and this thought. I definitely need to read more Peirce. Are there specific posts from your blog that I should see, or just go through all the archives? ;-)Christopher Bradford (Grasshopper)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15570059391740402667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6814666.post-1086645201405045522004-06-07T15:53:00.000-06:002004-06-07T15:53:00.000-06:00While I find the concept of "memes" somewhat probl...While I find the concept of "memes" somewhat problematic, I think you'll find that this is what Peirce believed. He's famous for saying that man is a sign. I've touched on this a few times on my blog. The Metaphysical Club is good for mentioning him, but his actual writings are well worth reading. The Essential Peirce is the best source. However short of that go to my blog and I have Clark Goblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03876620613578404474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6814666.post-1086645011745907642004-06-07T15:50:00.000-06:002004-06-07T15:50:00.000-06:00Funny you should recommend that; I just picked it ...Funny you should recommend that; I just picked it up at the library a few days ago and am a few pages in. From your description, though, it sounds like my speculation above is a step further: not only are ideas part and parcel of the universe, but perhaps we <B>are</B> embodied ideas.Christopher Bradford (Grasshopper)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15570059391740402667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6814666.post-1086642987943660822004-06-07T15:16:00.000-06:002004-06-07T15:16:00.000-06:00Sounds a lot like an explanation of "pragmatism" t...Sounds a lot like an explanation of "pragmatism" that I read recently in THE METAPHYSICAL CLUB, by Louis Menand. It is difficult to explain well and succinctly, but it is basically the notion that ideas persist according to their viability, and that the best ideas are the ones that best adapt to the state of the universe. In addition to this, it also encompasses the notion that the very state Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com